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Welcome to NerdWallet’s Smart Money podcast, where we answer your real-world money questions. In this episode:

Learn how to make compassionate, informed decisions for your pet’s end-of-life care, balancing costs, emotions, and love.

How can you plan for end of life care for your pet? Hosts Sean Pyles and Ronita Choudhuri-Wade discuss the emotional and financial challenges of pet end-of-life care and the importance of early decision-making to help you understand how to make compassionate and practical choices that are realistic for your financial situation. They begin with a discussion of the gut-wrenching reality of limited pet lifespans, with tips and tricks on preparing for end-of-life care, weighing treatment costs against quality of life, and ensuring pets do not suffer needlessly.

Dr. Fiona McCord, founder of Compassionate Care Vet Services, then joins Ronita to discuss the complexities of end-of-life care decision-making. They discuss the importance of early planning, balancing love and practicality in pet care, and resources for grief support. Through touching stories and practical advice, Dr. McCord emphasizes the necessity of preparing for the financial and emotional aspects of pet end-of-life care, helping pet owners navigate these challenging times with compassion and foresight.

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Sean Pyles:

It’s inevitable. We know it’s coming. Our pets are only with us for what seems like a short period of time, then they go off across the Rainbow Bridge. And one of the hardest decisions that we have to make is how to put a price on keeping them alive for even just one more day.

Dr. Fiona McCord:

What I want and what I want a client to see is that they have a pet who experiences the best possible quality of life for as long as possible. But when that quality falls lower, or we know that that quality is going to slip, or a crisis may occur, then that we make the right decisions to make sure they get to leave this earth, as I said, no stress, no discomfort, no pain, in the arms of their owner, or eating a cheeseburger.

Sean Pyles:

Welcome to NerdWallet’s Smart Money podcast. I’m Sean Pyles.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

And I’m Ronita Choudhuri-Wade.

Sean Pyles:

This is the final episode of our Nerdy deep dive into the cost of pet care. Ronita, this is such a hard topic, I almost don’t want to deal with it. I know I have limited years with Ozzy and Argus and Pepper, although I’m pretty sure Ozzy, the gecko, is going to live to 100 in human years, only 88 more years to go. But in all seriousness, I know at some point I’m going to have to make these decisions about helping them into the great animal hereafter, and I know it’s very likely that money will have to factor into that decision.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Yeah. When I think about Moe and how vibrant he is now, just a few years old, it’s hard to imagine that moment, that time when we have to consider letting him go, either because of old age or infirmity or some sort of health issue. He still acts like such a happy little puppy dude, but I know it’s coming. I just hope it’s way, way far away, and that we have a chance to do a proper goodbye when the time comes.

Sean Pyles:

Yeah. When I see older dogs out on the street with great whiskers and wizened with age, taking a slow easy walk with their pet parents, I wonder what it’s going to be like with Pepper. But it’s not something that I dwell on all the time, nor should it be, but it is a good idea to have some sort of sense of what you’ll be willing to do for them when they reach the end of their lifespan.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Yeah. And you just don’t know when those kinds of decisions are going to knock on your door. If they’re in an accident, you might have to make them at an early age. If they get cancer, same, or any illness. We talked in the last episode about how to prepare for the financial aspects of a trip to the emergency vet. Today, we’re going on to the next step of preparing for the eventuality of a pet’s death.

Sean Pyles:

Because depending on the circumstance, you could be faced with a decision over how much money you’re willing to spend to extend that life, and how much pain and suffering you’re willing to ask of them so they can keep you company a few months, weeks, days, or even hours more. It’s a wrenching dilemma and one that is almost impossible to predict, but that doesn’t mean that it’s impossible to plan for.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Yes, and that’s what we’re exploring today. As you’ve said, how do we put a price on the life of our pets? What are we willing to spend to keep them alive? Are we willing to pay for modern surgeries? Do we pay for chemotherapy and other medicines? How do we know when paying to extend their lives is more for us than it is for them? It’s a lot of questions. How do we set limits, if at all? We’ll try to get some answers.

Sean Pyles:

All right. Well, listeners, we’ve been talking about our pets for the past four episodes, and now we want to hear your stories about your pets and what it takes to keep them in kibble. What are you sacrificing in your budget to have an animal? Have you had a household discussion about what you’re willing to spend on their end-of-life care? Leave us a voicemail or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That’s 901-730-NERD, or email a voice memo to [email protected]. All right, Ronita, who are we hearing from today?

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

So today’s guest is Dr. Fiona McCord. She’s been practicing veterinary medicine in the Dallas area for more than 30 years. She’s also the founder of Compassionate Care Vet Services, which provides end-of-life coaching and in-home euthanasia. We’re going to have the tough talk in the hopes that it provides some comfort and direction for pet owners out there.

Sean Pyles:

That’s coming up in a moment. Stay with us.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Hi, Dr. McCord. Thanks for joining us today on Smart Money.

Dr. Fiona McCord:

Well, you’re very welcome. I am more than happy to talk about this subject. I love it, and we don’t talk about it nearly enough.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

I absolutely agree. Do you have any pets?

Dr. Fiona McCord:

I do, but I currently have one dog. Two weeks ago, I had two dogs. So this conversation is very personal as well as professional, because I lost my wonderful lady on the 4th of July, which is Independence Day, which is kind of perfect, because she was Miss Independence. Her name was Dixie Belle, but we called her Dixie Hell. So that should tell you everything you need to know.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Oh, but I’m so sorry. Such a loss.

Dr. Fiona McCord:

It is. It’s an absolute life changer and a heartbreaker every time.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Yeah. And, I mean, when I think about my dog Moe and him not being around, I mean, I feel like I mentally can’t even get there, let alone attach a price tag to the whole process of losing a pet. Many of our listeners would have maybe been through this process, as you’re going through it too. But for those who haven’t, what are some of the issues that come up for pet parents?

Dr. Fiona McCord:

Well, let me say one thing first, and that is simply because I know the subject matter here has dollar signs, and I just want to make sure everybody understands that do not ever equate those dollars that you have the ability to spend with your ability to give your pet the very best, most awesome life and end of life. That’s just a given. There are so many things that play into this.

But, I mean, our pets become such an integral part of our lives, and the bond that we develop with them is something that you truly cannot explain to someone who has not experienced it. And having created that bond, when we get to that stage in their lives that we are facing the end, it overloads very often. It’s an area of time in their lives where we have opportunities to stand up and do things for them, but it’s a heartbreaker at the same time, and dollars do play into it.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

The kind of love that human beings can share with animals is really something else, and they provide so much joy. No matter what kind of day you’re having, they’re always so happy to see you. But when we’re talking about end-of-life issues, and while finances aren’t all important, where do finances come into that discussion? I wonder if you might have some stories about people who have had to decide not to spend, say, thousands of dollars to keep their pet alive just to have a few more weeks with them.

Dr. Fiona McCord:

One of the things I would say in any of this decision-making that we find ourselves in is to start early, which I know sounds kind of weird. But as soon as you start realizing that you’re getting to that end-of-life phase, then it’s getting all that information and making decisions before you’re overwhelmed with emotion, because sometimes once we get sucked into this end of life, we tend to just feel like we’re on a train and you can’t get off it and you can’t change it.

I had a lady who called me on a Friday, and we were talking about in-home euthanasia and letting her kitty leave this earth in the most gentle way we possibly could. But she was scheduled on the Monday for a scan. I think it was an MRI. I can’t remember exactly what it was. But her kitty was scheduled for a $3,000 procedure on Monday morning, and she was stressed, not necessarily about the money, but about the stress for the cat, what was this going to feel like, and all of that.

So when I talked her through this, and this was a kitty who had a neurological issue, and so the question was kind of, “Do we have a brain tumor? Do we have some other kind of brain lesion?” And this test was going to maybe give us an answer. But as I talked with her, I said, “You know what? So we do this test, and this kitty has a brain tumor. What are we going to do?” And the answer was euthanasia.

If we do this test and this kitty doesn’t have a brain tumor, it’s an old cat, by the way, what are we going to do? Euthanasia. Then why are we dragging a kitty into a vet to go through a test and spend $3,000 if what you’re going to ultimately do and what the cat is going to experience may actually be worse going down the spend $3,000 route than the other?

So I think all of our decisions coming down through this have to be, what do we want for this pet? What can we fix? What can we not fix? What can we control? What can we not control? Now, how do we, within our resources, money included, give this animal the very best life, but also, and this may sound like a weird thing to say, but given that I do this, a beautiful death?

And that’s what I want for my animals. I don’t believe with my pets, it’s my job to give them the longest possible life. I believe it is my job to give them the best possible life. And when that body fails, whether it is disease or it is age decline, whatever it is, is to make sure that they get to leave this earth in the gentlest, most loving manner within, again, the resources I have and what I believe is okay for my pet and my worldview. And that’s where the decision process takes us.

So that’s just an example of, we could have spent $3,000, it wasn’t going to impact anything, but why? What was the kitty going to get out of it? What were we going to get out of it? And was that really the most rational, reasonable, and loving choice?

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

So you do end-of-life consulting for pet parents, as you’ve mentioned. What do those conversations sound like? How do you start those conversations?

Dr. Fiona McCord:

Well, these conversations start with listening and asking, because a lot of these decisions are very personal. We have to figure out what is going on with that pet. What does a client understand or know about what is going on with the pet? But then also, what do we anticipate and expect to happen down this path if we do something, if we don’t do something? What does that client want for this pet? What matters the most to this client for this pet?

Well, what I want and what I want a client to see is that they have a pet who experiences the best possible quality of life for as long as possible. But when that quality falls lower, or we know that that quality is going to slip, or a crisis may occur, then that we make the right decisions to make sure they get to leave this earth, as I said, no stress, no discomfort, no pain, in the arms of their owner, or eating a cheeseburger.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

This conversation has me thinking about when my childhood dog passed away. And I look back, I was maybe in my late teens, when Snowy did pass away, and I saw that one thing that my family struggled with is knowing when the pet’s reached a stage to start thinking about these things. I would just like to get your take on, how do you know when your pets reach the stage?

Dr. Fiona McCord:

So I would say that you start thinking about it and addressing it as soon as you start seeing some signs. And the two classic places, one is when a client gets a terminal diagnosis, which is a very sudden onset, and that should be the start to think about it regardless of where we go down that path. But some people, that’s where this will start, terminal diagnosis.

For others, it’s a much more gradual awareness as either aging or chronic disease starts causing a decline that we start recognizing in our pets. So either of those places, it’s time to start thinking. If I have an animal that has a diagnosis that I know I can’t fix, I know all I can do is manage it. I might be able to make this animal feel a little bit better for a little bit longer. As soon as I’m in there, I’m in that window.

And that is where it becomes that very personal one of how far down this path do we go and what is okay down this path for my pet in my home, because the competing piece here is that while I want as long as possible, provided quality is good, what I also don’t want is the crisis last day. I don’t want ever anybody picking their dog up and going to an emergency room in the middle of the night. I don’t want anybody with me on one end of the phone hearing the dog screaming in the back, saying, “I need to euthanize my dog now.”

So sometimes the balance becomes, “I will trade off a little bit of time, maybe, to make sure that this dog never hits that point, and that this dog’s last day really is at home, being loved on, eating a burger, if that makes them happy.” Whatever it takes to have made decisions that when you look back, you have the fewest possible regrets is a goal in everything that we do as end-of-life providers.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Right. And if we look specifically at that planning side of it, could you share some advice on financial considerations that pet owners would have to consider?

Dr. Fiona McCord:

The use of dollars for medical care for your pet or end of life is like any other use of dollars. It’s, “What do I have? What are my priorities? And how do I do what I want to do?” So other than insurance, which is certainly going to cover some, everything else is still your dollars, and it’s just how do those dollars flow from you to the provider of care?

So part of that is, that decision-making is huge. What do I want? How do I get this best? And maybe I can’t do all of these things, but what can I do? Because sometimes we think that if we are sitting in a vet’s office and they tell us it’s going to be X, Y, or Z, to do chemo or do whatever, we go, “Oh, well, we can’t afford it,” or maybe we’ve done all that and we make a statement like, “There’s nothing else we can do.”

I would argue that there is something else you can do. You can make that animal as comfortable as possible. So that ahead-of-time thinking about what matters to me at the end of my pet’s life, so now I can decide how do I distribute my resources to make sure I get them that. It may not be chemo and surgery and $50,000. I have a person I’m talking to right now who is afraid to get a pet, because she’s afraid she won’t have enough money for all the medical care she’ll need to get that pet.

That is awful. It’s not about dollars in medical care. There is a certain amount we have to do, but we’ve got to pull back and understand what we really want to give this pet, and that it’s okay not to have the $50,000 to do the surgery and the chemo and whatever else.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

So what are some options that pet owners might have for end-of-life care? Can you walk us through that? And then we can also look into how does hospice care work, et cetera.

Dr. Fiona McCord:

You’re likely to have a regular vet. So you’re likely to have gone through general medical care through the course of this dog’s life. At some point, you get your diagnosis or you have an issue that you need to look at. Anywhere down this path, it is almost always okay to say, “I don’t want my pet to experience this negative” whatever it is. And euthanasia is the thing that we have that allows us to prevent any discomfort whatsoever.

So that is there, but we’re still coming into it with, “I want as long as possible, provided quality is best.” And really, the regular vet can provide almost everything, because I used to… When I started this practice, I did actual hospice, which is going to be where I’m going to come into this situation with a client and a pet, and all of them are my focus of care.

I’m looking now at the family, at the environment. I’m going into the home. So I’m able to go in and say, “Well, I know what’s going to make things harder for this pet or not,” because a lot of end-of-life stuff is not dollars. It’s managing the situation. So our dogs that are… mobility issues, can’t get up anymore. Well, you know what? We’ve put some runners down. This dog will be able to get up, but he can’t get up on the wood floor. “He can’t go where he wants. He can’t get to his bed anymore.” Well, if you brought it downstairs, he would.

So a lot of the hospice and the ability to go into a home and look at how the family runs, what the relationships are there, what the environment is, is huge. And that is not a big dollar thing. When I consider dying, there’s three biggies for me that I don’t want at the end of my life. I don’t want physical pain I cannot control. I do not want the inability to breathe, and I do not want panic and anxiety. So when I come to this in the hospice setting for what we’re going to keep our animals going down this path, I have those same three things for them.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

When you get to that inevitable time where it’s clear your pet is near the end, what are some considerations for deciding between euthanasia and a natural death?

Dr. Fiona McCord:

That is very, very dependent on the situation. The process of death can be a fairly gentle, nontraumatic one. So if I have a really old, the 22-year-old cat who is dying, but overall, all the organs of the body are aging and wearing down, and everything kind of slows together, including the mental acuity.

So if a body is doing that, then you could actually have a death that you would support it maybe with pain med or, comfortably, things like keeping the lips and the tongue wet, a warm, comfortable position, the presence of someone who loves them. Those kinds of things can make a natural death maybe be okay, and it can take a long time. So if that is what someone wants to do and they’re able to manage that with the pain meds, whatever, that’s fine.

But most of our pets end up with conditions where the death process is not going to be gentle. There’s no reason to go down the natural death path unless you know that the trajectory of what is likely to happen in this body is something gentle, that I can medicate appropriately to control any discomfort and, again, that I don’t have a condition that is going to leave a last experience for a pet very unpleasant.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

So when you have these options, how do you balance what you want for your pet with what it’s going to cost between sedation, euthanasia?

Dr. Fiona McCord:

Our way to control dollars is to do all the things that we can do within our home to manage and maximize comfort, to use a regular veterinarian to get the drugs I need. But you should be able to manage with a combination of your regular veterinarian, maybe an end-of-life vet, if you can find someone who will take that role, and then who is there for you at the very end.

Some of the cost relates to aftercare of that body. Now it is about the client, whose heart is broken, and there’s nothing we can do about that. So now it is what all can be done in order to minimize that pain and support that client through this piece until life starts to look a little bit normal again.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

I wonder if you could recommend any resources or support groups for pet owners dealing with grief.

Dr. Fiona McCord:

The sources, obviously, naturally, they’re going to be different depending on where you are. There are a number of online grief groups. So if you want to do that virtual thing, lots out there. A lot of the cremation companies, if you find out who does this in your area, several of them have virtual groups that they support, and even phone lines that you can call about grief. Some of the rescue groups may have one. Some of the emergency clinics in your area may have one.

And then the other thing is actual true counseling. The group that I do, I actually co-facilitate with a counselor, and there’s going to be an occasional person that needs more than just a support group. If the family already has someone that they’ve used for other issues, then that might work, as long as that counselor gets it. This is one of those where you have got to be around people that get it.

And the other thing that happens with loss is that losses tend to pile up. And sometimes the loss of a pet, devastating, but it will open up all the other losses that have not yet been dealt with in that person’s life. It can be a floodgate. So everything from, “Oh, I just need to chat with somebody,” all the way up to, “I need real help here.” It can be a loss of identity, “Who am I? I’m Foo-Foo’s mother, but I’m not anymore.” So, so many situations and such a level of devastation that a person who has not experienced it really can’t wrap their brain around it, and we can’t expect them to.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

So to wrap up, when you are counseling pet parents who are dealing with a pending loss of their beloved furry family member, what would you say are the most important takeaways for our listeners to think about, especially financially, but as well as emotionally, at the end of their pet’s life?

Dr. Fiona McCord:

I think it is back to what we kind of said at the beginning, is sit down, see what do you want for your pet, what matters to you at the end. What if you’ve already got a situation that you kind of know what you’re going to be dealing with? What do you think that situation is going to look like? Find someone or get the information, enough information, that you have a sense of what’s coming so that you can make some of those tough decisions before you’re in it. How are you going to want to do that? What do you think of this? Before those emotions and all you can feel is the pain and the panic of what’s coming.

It is the getting ahead. It is planning, having time to think through it, to let your brain and your heart wrap around what this is that’s coming, and just make the best decisions you can. But the more you do on the front end to know that you have made those rational, good decisions for you and your pet, the better it will be on that back end. When you look back on the awesomeness of that life, no matter how painful the loss at the end, they are absolutely worth every bit of pain we suffer at the loss.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Dr. Fiona McCord, thank you so much for talking with us today about this difficult topic and covering it with such depth and insight and warmth. We’re also so sorry for the loss of your dog as well, but thank you so much for coming on Smart Money.

Dr. Fiona McCord:

You are so welcome. Happy to do it.

Sean Pyles:

Ronita, I am trying to not fall down a hole of imagining my dear pets’ last moments. But there are a lot of valuable lessons in your conversation with Dr. McCord. First and foremost, do not equate your ability to spend with your ability to give your pet a good life. In fact, sometimes spending more money on a pet’s care can actually leave them feeling worse and suffering for longer. And what I’m personally going to be focusing on is the idea of giving my pets beautiful deaths. I want to honor their lives and our relationships in their final moments, and that’s kind of the best you can hope for.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

I couldn’t agree more. And one thing I did want to add in, just so our listeners are prepared, are the costs after your pet has passed. A pet cremation can cost between $30 to $250, depending on the size of the pet, and whether it’s communal or private cremation, while a burial can cost between $300 to $2,000.

And like everything we’ve spoken about before, it’s good to have a plan, to know what to do when the moment comes, especially when it can get so emotional and difficult, and to prepare yourself and your family for the hole that appears in the pet’s absence. I will say, just to lighten things, I am considering getting one of those dog portraits done for Moe. You know where they put your dog’s face on a distinguished general or an old-timey king’s body? It is how I would like to remember Moe as a little doggy emperor.

Sean Pyles:

That is so sweet. Well, Ronita, when I think about why we did this series, it really is in the spirit of education and getting folks to think ahead. As we said in the first episode, this is like any other financial consideration, whether it’s retirement or paying for school or having kids. This isn’t meant to be a downer, but actually the opposite, to save folks from having to make surprise decisions in the moment.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Yeah. It’s a reality check, right? Puppies and kittens and goldfish and geckos and hamsters and horses, they’re all such wonderful additions to our lives. But as we’ve said, they’re not free. While you might get them for free, their existence in your household isn’t. It’s really worth taking the time to budget for them, to think about what your limits will be for their healthcare, and what your endpoint will be when they reach the end. And then from there on out, all you have to do is love them.

Sean Pyles:

That is the easiest part, and my favorite.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

Sean Pyles:

Well, Ronita, this has been such a great series. Thank you for bringing it to us.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

My pleasure, Sean. Woof, woof.

Sean Pyles:

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

And that’s the end of that.

Sean Pyles:

For now, that’s all we have for this episode. Do you have a money question of your own? Turn to the Nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That’s 901-730-NERD. You can also email us at [email protected]. And remember, you can follow the show on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade:

This episode was produced by Tess Vigeland. Sean helped with editing. Kim Lowe helped with fact-checking. And a big thank you to the NerdWallet editors for all their help.

Sean Pyles:

Here’s our brief disclaimer. We are not financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

Ronita Choudhuri-Wade: